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Laos can be richest nation in Southeast Asia (Read 20023 times)
 
Buk Nut
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Re: Laos can be richest nation in Southeast Asia
Reply #15 - 25th Jun, 2014 at 1:42am
 
OK I understand Laos recapturing Isan because that area is still majority ethnic Lao people and they speak Lao, although it is integrating more and more Thai vocabulary with the passage of time. Isan is all Lao except for some small pockets of Thais in the urban areas, and the provinces of Srisaket, Surin, and Buriram which belong to Cambodia.

Nanzhao was a multi-ethnic kingdom which was comrpised of many ethnic groups. It was not just Tai-Kradai speaking people. There were also many Tibeto-Burman Lolo groups, Austroasiatics, and many of the ethnic groups of that time were undocumented. The first recorded presence of Tai-Kradai peoples (Siamese, Lao, Shan, Tai Dam, Tai Daeng) in Southeast Asia is in modern day Dien Bien Phu Vietnam, being the legend of Khun Borom. All of the Tai Kradai languages are incredibly similar and mutually intelligible to some degree, unlike the Austroasiatic languages. I can speak, read and write Thai and Lao and I can understand a bit of the Shan language of Shan state Burma. I can also understand bits and pieces of the Tai Dam language.

Now this being said, before the Tai Kradai people moved into Southeast Asia, there were already kingdoms there, and other civilizations, notably the Mons, who are now a shell of their former selves. Present day Thailand and Laos was inhabited by Mon-Khmer speaking people, such as the Mons, the Khmus and the Khmers. There were no Thais or Laos, so do you suggest the Khmus, Khmers, and Mons all team up and attempt to wipe out the Thais? Because technically the Laos and Thais brutalized the Mon, Khmu and Khmer people. The area around Bangkok was the Lawa kingdom which was inhabited by Lawa people, who are believed to be some of the oldest known people in southeast Asia. There were also Malays in that area.

Modern day Sipsongpanna, roughly located in the same general vicinity as Nanzhao, is inhabited by Tai Lue people. The Siamese claim them, but I have listened to Tai Lue speakers, and it is very similar to Lao. Tai Lue is basically a mix of Lanna and Lao with some Chinese loan words. There are also Shan speakers in the Sipsongpanna area. It would make sense to take back Sipsongpanna for Laos, but it's never going to happen.

Sipsongjaotai, or modern day Dien Bien Phu in Vietnam. This is like the holy grail for all Tais. This is where Tai people first entered Southeast Asia, supposedly. Now it has been developed into an urban sh-thole by the greedy Vietnamese and the native Tai Dam people have been reduced to a tribal status, living outside the cities scattered in tribal villages. During the Vietnam War, the Tai Dam, Tai Daeng, and Tai Khao tribes collaborated and were trying to create their own country called สิบสองเจ้าไท but Ho Chi Minh fueled fighting between the tribes and weakened them by disintegrating their unity.

You know the Zhuang people of China? The second largest ethnic group in China only to Han Chinese, even more numerous than Tibetans? They are a Tai speaking ethnic group. Yep, millions and millions of Tais live in China and played a huge part in its history. Thai and Lao people are descended from the Zhuang people of China, who still live there and speak the Zhuang language to this day. The area of modern day Nanzhao would be Yunnan China if I'm correct, which is one of the provinces of China with a large ethnic minority population. If China ever collapsed, this would probably become a Zhuang state.
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peterpan
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Re: Laos can be richest nation in Southeast Asia
Reply #16 - 25th Jun, 2014 at 10:16am
 
The wildest novel I ever read. Applause
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Peter
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Re: Laos can be richest nation in Southeast Asia
Reply #17 - 25th Jun, 2014 at 10:51am
 
War, domination, and imperialist hierarchical command aren't the answer, whether it's by Laos/Cambodia, China, Communists, Socialists or Capitalists. 

Taking seriously and promoting the values of the Buddhas and the sage teachings of the various Sutras, the Tao te Ching, etc. among all the people, both leaders and commoners, is the only long term solution and the only way Lao, Thai, Khmer, Hmong, and all the rest can live in peace. 

And it can be done at the same time as you increase technical advancement and standards of living, if you're careful.

But I'm just being an idealist and nobody every listens to impractical ideals.  So go ahead with your revolutions & stuff.  I'll just go back to listening to John Lennon's "Imagine" and finish the blog essay I was writing on why it won't work.
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Buk Nut
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Re: Laos can be richest nation in Southeast Asia
Reply #18 - 25th Jun, 2014 at 1:54pm
 
I don't agree with war either and anyways both Laos and Cambodia know that they will never stand a chance against China, even if united. Laos and Cambodia aren't allies now and were not allies historically.

To make my post short, TexasCowboy, Nanzhao was a multi-ethnic kingdom and no one knows who the rulers were, so to call it a Tai state would be a fallacy.
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Re: Laos can be richest nation in Southeast Asia
Reply #19 - 25th Jun, 2014 at 2:07pm
 
As Nanzhao sounds like chinese pronouciation. the followings are what I found.

Nan Zhao Dynasty or just Nan Zao Kingdom (from 738 to 902),founded in Yunnan-Gui Zhou Plateau, dominant people were Bai, Dai ( Tai Lue ) Ni Shu, and Wa.

you can google Da Li China. you will find the capital of Nan Zhao Kindom

Buk Nut wrote on 25th Jun, 2014 at 1:54pm:
I don't agree with war either and anyways both Laos and Cambodia know that they will never stand a chance against China, even if united. Laos and Cambodia aren't allies now and were not allies historically.

To make my post short, TexasCowboy, Nanzhao was a multi-ethnic kingdom and no one knows who the rulers were, so to call it a Tai state would be a fallacy.

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Buk Nut
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Re: Laos can be richest nation in Southeast Asia
Reply #20 - 25th Jun, 2014 at 10:36pm
 
Yes and the Wa were not Tai peoples. They're related to the Khmer of Cambodia
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